Hello from Portugal

[Shark00n]

Hi, I'm Manuel and I'm seventeen.
The last year has been really rough on me, and just when I started to talk more fluently, the stuttering issue was going away, it just came back 20 times as big.
I can't talk with no-one, family or friends!

So... I guess I just want to share the grief, since it is much easier in writing, even though I'm typing in a foreign language, and also get some help.


So... Hey.

[Jim22]

Hi Manuel -

I'm Jim, from Arkansas, a state in the middle of the United States. Check my profile and introduction (as Jim22) to find out more about me.

You said you wanted help. I can't speak Portuguese; I can't even speak Spanish.

But your message was very well written. How good are you at understanding English?

You said when you started to talk fluently, your stuttering came back, twenty times worse. Could you explain that a little more? Why did you start to speak fluently? What happened?

Do you block when you stutter?

Can you sing without stuttering?

Can you order books in English? I'm thinking of a book entitled, 'How To Overcome Stammering,' by Mabel Farrington Gifford, which was reprinted this year and is sold at a discounted price of $15.61 by Amazon.com.

I'm asking you all these questions because, if you seriously want to become fluent, and if you stutter like I did, I think perhaps I may be able to help you.

Jim

[Shark00n]

Hi Manuel -

I'm Jim, from Arkansas, a state in the middle of the United States. Check my profile and introduction (as Jim22) to find out more about me.

You said you wanted help. I can't speak Portuguese; I can't even speak Spanish.

But your message was very well written. How good are you at understanding English?

You said when you started to talk fluently, your stuttering came back, twenty times worse. Could you explain that a little more? Why did you start to speak fluently? What happened?

Do you block when you stutter?

Can you sing without stuttering?

Can you order books in English? I'm thinking of a book entitled, 'How To Overcome Stammering,' by Mabel Farrington Gifford, which was reprinted this year and is sold at a discounted price of $15.61 by Amazon.com.

I'm asking you all these questions because, if you seriously want to become fluent, and if you stutter like I did, I think perhaps I may be able to help you.

Jim

Hey, thanks Jim!

Yes I understand written and spoken english very nicely, no problems there.

Well I was talking fluently, I don't know how and I don't remember it very nicely because I just forgot about it. But I almost didn't stutter back then.

Yes, I do block frequently.

Can I sing without stuttering... Well, I have a big problem starting it... But when I do I suppose I can sing, but when another sentence begins, or there is a pause, it's like starting over again, I block.

I'll have a look at that book over at Amazon UK.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

I think - I hope - you misunderstand me about singing.

I did not mean trying to speak by singing sentences!

We have a song in America called the Happy Birthday Song. It goes:

Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday dear Manuel,
Happy birthday to you.

I'm sure you have well-known folk songs or church hymns in Portugal. Can you sing them without stuttering?

In church, or in school, can you sing along with others without stuttering?

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

I think - I hope - you misunderstand me about singing.

I did not mean trying to speak by singing sentences!

We have a song in America called the Happy Birthday Song. It goes:

Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday dear Manuel,
Happy birthday to you.

I'm sure you have well-known folk songs or church hymns in Portugal. Can you sing them without stuttering?

In church, or in school, can you sing along with others without stuttering?

Jim

Yes I understood you. When it comes to singing I often block at the beginning of sentences.
Maybe not on the most common songs, but still.


For instance, The Auld Lang Sine:
"Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and never brought to mind ?
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and auld lang syne ?"

I don't sing this song very often, so I'd probably sing it like this:
Sh - - -sh - -sh - - should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and never brought to mind ?
Sh - - sh - - Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
and auld lang syne ?


Did I make myself understandable?:confused:

[Jim22]

Manuel -

You are very understandable. (Your English is excellent.)

Also, I praise you for your honesty and predict you will do well.

But you present me with a problem. I am not a speech pathologist and do not know all the ins and outs of different types of speech therapy.

I used to stutter very badly (see 'My All-Time Worst Stutter Experience') and I know what I had to do to overcome it and speak fluently.

I think I can help others who stutter as I did, but I've got to have them at the same starting point.

Unfortunately, my friend, you are not and therefore I question how much help I could be to you. I'm afraid I would waste your time and mine. And I don't want to disappoint you.

Perhaps someone else who blocks when they stutter will ask for my help. If I feel I can help that person, and if he/she will agree, we'll run it openly on the Stuttering Forum and you can follow along, step by step.

I truthfully don't know what to do for the person who stutters when he sings, even where to start. Sorry. You might want to ask on the forum if any person has had that problem and been able to overcome it.

Rest assured, Manuel, my best wishes go with you. We'll keep in touch.

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

You are very understandable. (Your English is excellent.)

Also, I praise you for your honesty and predict you will do well.

But you present me with a problem. I am not a speech pathologist and do not know all the ins and outs of different types of speech therapy.

I used to stutter very badly (see 'My All-Time Worst Stutter Experience') and I know what I had to do to overcome it and speak fluently.

I think I can help others who stutter as I did, but I've got to have them at the same starting point.

Unfortunately, my friend, you are not and therefore I question how much help I could be to you. I'm afraid I would waste your time and mine. And I don't want to disappoint you.

Perhaps someone else who blocks when they stutter will ask for my help. If I feel I can help that person, and if he/she will agree, we'll run it openly on the Stuttering Forum and you can follow along, step by step.

I truthfully don't know what to do for the person who stutters when he sings, even where to start. Sorry. You might want to ask on the forum if any person has had that problem and been able to overcome it.

Rest assured, Manuel, my best wishes go with you. We'll keep in touch.

Jim

Thank you for your help Jim, you were helpfull believe me.
I've seen three therapists. One when I was a child, that aided a friend of mine into speaking right. He had a minor tongue dislexia, he said "sh" instead of a regular "c" or "s". (i.e.: Dishlexia), my mother was all into it, if it worked for my friend it had to work for me too. But it didn't work.
Then I had another one wich I can't quite remember, and the last one was pretty useless, all I did was board games (didn't envolve much speech, I saw a couple of videos of recorder therapy sessions and I was amased) so I quited this last one, that was back in 2001 I think, when I was about 11.
I never had very understanding parents, or even family.
My dad had a stutter, not as bad as me, but he teased me sometimes. My mom tells me to bread and be calm, and it annoys me everytime she says that, it's like I don't know the drill or haven't ever tried it.
And last, my sister, she actually really hurt my feelings. Just yesterday I was trying to talk to her and being friendly about a new TV-Show I just seen, I was taking a while to finish my sentence, I think she got fed up, she got up from the sofa, went to the kitchen, and started talking to my mom about dinner, I felt like a ghost...

[Standingtall]

Welcome Manuel, good to meet you and enjoy your stay here. There are many good people on here with all different kind of experiences. Looking forward in reading yours. Peace.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

You are wise not to feel hurt or get angry at your sister. Keep the good attitude, hold on and don't let it get you down; you'll be miles ahead.

If I were you, I would go ahead and order 'How to Overcome Stammering,' by Mabel Gifford. Pay special attention to what she calls 'The Sigh Principle,' pages 12 to 19. Look and experiment with the six examples at the bottom of page 18.

You mentioned a problem getting started when singing, specifically Auld Lang Sine, the first word of which is: 'Should,' which starts with an SH sound.

There are probably many approaches to handling this.

The one I prefer is relaxing and letting out a big sigh. Practice sighing. Say 50 times. Notice that you don't stutter. That's because there's nothing to stutter about. Practice another fifty sighs and tell yourself you're sighing fluently. If you aren't, relax more and keep practicing till you are. It is absolutely essential that you are able to sigh fluently at any time, any place, under any condition - even with your sister around. You keep practicing sighs until you know deep down in your heart you can sigh fluently.

You MUST get this step right. It is your first step to fluency. You must not only know you can do it but you must be able to recall how it feels. You must realize how relaxed your body is, how at ease your jaws, mouth, tongue and lips are.

Wendell Johnson, a well-known speech therapist, wrote, " ... STUTTERING IS LARGELY WHAT THE STUTTERER DOES TRYING NOT TO STUTTER."

You must accept that as true. You must quit trying not to stutter and, instead, start trying to speak fluently. Fluency is not a diminution of stuttering; it is the opposite of stuttering.

Fluency is speaking with ease. Stuttering is speaking with violence, the attempt to use force to push out sounds or words.

Okay, Manuel, when you have the fluent sigh under control, and are sure you have, add voice to the sigh, perhaps the sound, 'SHU.'

Once again, you go back over the repetitions, again and again. Relax and use lots of breathy outpouring - long, drawn-out sighs. Breathing - the breathy outpouring - is the power behind your speech - not your mouth - not your jaws - not your tongue - not your lips. You will learn to use your mouth, jaws, tongue and lips to regulate your speech, not to block it.

'SHU' is a sibilant sound, plenty of hissing, but you can hiss plenty without having to press your tongue hard against the roof of your mouth. Instead, relax and use very passive mouth action.

In fact, barely move your mouth as you let 'SHU' flow out on a stream of air. Then repeat that over and over until you are certain you can say 'SHU' anytime, anyplace, under any condition - even with your sister present and watching.

Once you're absolutely certain of your fluent syllable, try singing the first line of 'Auld Lang Sine.' Does it now flow out like in your practice? If it did, you've taken the second step towards fluency.

If not, (and it's hard to take these steps because you're a stutterer and fluent speech is probably going to feel abnormal to you), you need to return to the practice 'SHU' again, with all the repetitions. You must be certain - know in your heart - that you are going to be able to make these sounds where and when you need to!

A REAL DANGER >>> Just because you're fluent after practicing a half hour or so does not mean you're fluent forever! At this point, you have a whole lifetime of stuttering to overcome. You can do it. It just takes time to train your mind and you have to keep doing it until it changes the connections in your brain.

Manuel, I hope this is a help. Let me know. Keep me informed.

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

You are wise not to feel hurt or get angry at your sister. Keep the good attitude, hold on and don't let it get you down; you'll be miles ahead.

If I were you, I would go ahead and order 'How to Overcome Stammering,' by Mabel Gifford. Pay special attention to what she calls 'The Sigh Principle,' pages 12 to 19. Look and experiment with the six examples at the bottom of page 18.

You mentioned a problem getting started when singing, specifically Auld Lang Sine, the first word of which is: 'Should,' which starts with an SH sound.

There are probably many approaches to handling this.

The one I prefer is relaxing and letting out a big sigh. Practice sighing. Say 50 times. Notice that you don't stutter. That's because there's nothing to stutter about. Practice another fifty sighs and tell yourself you're sighing fluently. If you aren't, relax more and keep practicing till you are. It is absolutely essential that you are able to sigh fluently at any time, any place, under any condition - even with your sister around. You keep practicing sighs until you know deep down in your heart you can sigh fluently.

You MUST get this step right. It is your first step to fluency. You must not only know you can do it but you must be able to recall how it feels. You must realize how relaxed your body is, how at ease your jaws, mouth, tongue and lips are.

Wendell Johnson, a well-known speech therapist, wrote, " ... STUTTERING IS LARGELY WHAT THE STUTTERER DOES TRYING NOT TO STUTTER."

You must accept that as true. You must quit trying not to stutter and, instead, start trying to speak fluently. Fluency is not a diminution of stuttering; it is the opposite of stuttering.

Fluency is speaking with ease. Stuttering is speaking with violence, the attempt to use force to push out sounds or words.

Okay, Manuel, when you have the fluent sigh under control, and are sure you have, add voice to the sigh, perhaps the sound, 'SHU.'

Once again, you go back over the repetitions, again and again. Relax and use lots of breathy outpouring - long, drawn-out sighs. Breathing - the breathy outpouring - is the power behind your speech - not your mouth - not your jaws - not your tongue - not your lips. You will learn to use your mouth, jaws, tongue and lips to regulate your speech, not to block it.

'SHU' is a sibilant sound, plenty of hissing, but you can hiss plenty without having to press your tongue hard against the roof of your mouth. Instead, relax and use very passive mouth action.

In fact, barely move your mouth as you let 'SHU' flow out on a stream of air. Then repeat that over and over until you are certain you can say 'SHU' anytime, anyplace, under any condition - even with your sister present and watching.

Once you're absolutely certain of your fluent syllable, try singing the first line of 'Auld Lang Sine.' Does it now flow out like in your practice? If it did, you've taken the second step towards fluency.

If not, (and it's hard to take these steps because you're a stutterer and fluent speech is probably going to feel abnormal to you), you need to return to the practice 'SHU' again, with all the repetitions. You must be certain - know in your heart - that you are going to be able to make these sounds where and when you need to!

A REAL DANGER >>> Just because you're fluent after practicing a half hour or so does not mean you're fluent forever! At this point, you have a whole lifetime of stuttering to overcome. You can do it. It just takes time to train your mind and you have to keep doing it until it changes the connections in your brain.

Manuel, I hope this is a help. Let me know. Keep me informed.

Jim

Thanks again Jim, Standingtall.
I'll try to do that from now then. And I'll most definately try to get the book.

Thanks for giving me a push.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

I was wondering how your day went.

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

I was wondering how your day went.

Jim

Hello. Thanks for asking.

It went allright I guess, no huge problems today, a few blocks and a ton of repetitions.
What annoyed me was the telephone, I wonder how I can speak perfectly on my own, but around people I stutter. And the telephone? There's no one around me, why do I specially stutter at the telephone?

But I am kind of nervous, I have two projects to present to 70+ people (Last high-school year, in Portugal it's the 12th grade) and I have no idea how that'll go...

[Jim22]

Manuel -

When are the reports on your two high school projects due?

Did you practice the 'SHU' sound and then singing the song? If so, how did it go?

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

When are the reports on your two high school projects due?

Did you practice the 'SHU' sound and then singing the song? If so, how did it go?

Jim

Yes I did, but I did it alone, so I guess it worked alright.

The reports are due to the next month or so, and one of them extends until I think 4 mor updates / presentations.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

You are supposed to practice alone. When you sang, after practiciing, did you stutter on 'Should,' the first word of the song? Or, did you sing it fluently?

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

You are supposed to practice alone. When you sang, after practiciing, did you stutter on 'Should,' the first word of the song? Or, did you sing it fluently?

Jim

Yes, I sang it fluently. (Is it sAng, or sUng?)
But it's common for me to talk fluently when I'm on my own.

Thanks.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

Great, we're getting somewhere.

Now, recall. What's the difference between singing 'Should' alone and singing it in the company of others?

What is it that causes you to stutter when singing in front of others?

Can you tell me what the difference is?

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

Great, we're getting somewhere.

Now, recall. What's the difference between singing 'Should' alone and singing it in the company of others?

What is it that causes you to stutter when singing in front of others?

Can you tell me what the difference is?

Jim

Well I don't know. I don't feel "nervous" when I'm near my family or friends, but I still stutter.
Although it is (or as I just found out last week, may not be) specially difficult amoung strangers. What I meant with that is I have two new students atending my classes, I saw them for the first time this year and I haven't got any particular problems speaking with them, same fluency I have with people I know.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

I didn't phrase my question clearly.

Forget about being nervous for the moment. 'Being nervous' is largely what causes you to stutter, because it makes you do things with your mouth that bring on the repetitions and blocks.

Now, think only about your mouth. What is the difference in feeling in you mouth when you stutter and you don't stutter?

Jim

[Shark00n]

Manuel -

I didn't phrase my question clearly.

Forget about being nervous for the moment. 'Being nervous' is largely what causes you to stutter, because it makes you do things with your mouth that bring on the repetitions and blocks.

Now, think only about your mouth. What is the difference in feeling in you mouth when you stutter and you don't stutter?

Jim

When I block, I feel like... my muscles have locked up.
When I do the word repeats, I think it's more of a breathing problem.

[Jim22]

Manuel -

Your descriptions are excellent!

" ... my muscles lock up ... " is an great description of a block. And " ... it is a breathing problem ... " says it all.

Those are the ways I used to feel when I stuttered. It happened to me because I was used to talking that way--used to stuttering. For me, it was normal to stutter - I expected to stutter - and I had a hard time getting over it.

That's why, if you want to be fluent, I want you to practice breathy outpouring - big sighs - huge sighs - so you'll quit having a breathing problem.

Then add sound to the sighs, breathy outpouring, and say sounds with very passive mouth action - almost no mouth action - keep your jaw relaxed - keep your mouth relaxed - keep your lips relaxed - keep your tongue relaxed ..... and let the sound (or word) flow out.

You need to practice this thirty minutes every day. Again and again. You can vary the sounds baw - caw - daw -faw -gaw - haw - jaw, etc. The important thing is that you notice how your mouth feels, and how easy it is for you to say those sounds.

If you can't go to sleep at night, think about how easy it is to say the sounds (or words) when you're relaxed. If you want to vary your thoughts, imagine yourself in a difficult speaking situation where you use a lot a breath and light mouth action so that the words come flowing out anyway.

Meanwhile, let me say a few words about stuttering and what other people do or say. If you want to control your life, Manuel, you don't want to get hung up on the fact that you stutter. People, especially young people, sometimes say mean things and tease. For your own sake, Manuel, you need to pay them no attention. Let it run off, like water off a duck's back. It does you no good to get mad or feel hurt. It just means that you're letting other people ruin your life.

Don't let them.

If you can do it, and this is hard, you need to pay as little attention as possible to your stuttering or any other disfluencies you have. So you are a stutterer at present. So what?

If you have the courage (it does take courage), it's best if you joke about it. When I did, the smile and a little humor helped a lot!

When I had a hard block, I would laugh and say, "Boy, I thought I would never get that out!" What was strnage was that my listener would laugh too and then want to talk about stuttering. I even made a couple of friends like that.

When I had trouble getting a sentence going (I used to have a hard time starting a sentence that began with a vowel <because I didn't have a flow of air>), after I finally got it out, I would laugh and say, "Boy, I thought I would never get going!" Again, my listener would laugh - with me!

One of the truest sayings I've ever come across is, "Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry and you cry alone."

A laugh - a smile - a gentle appearance - a kind word - goes a long way in turning a cold, hard world (every stutterer knows damn well what that's like!) into a warm, friendly world.

The important thing is to remember that you are doing all this for yourself. It's a long road to fluency and you're going to have to walk it, step by step.

If you want to try to become fluent, I'll be with you every step of the way.

If you change your mind and decide it's too hard and you want to drop out, that's okay, too. Just let me know.

Also, have you been able to locate a copy of 'How You Can Overcome Stammering?'

Meanwhile, I hope you remember to practice and wake refreshed for tomorrow.

Jim

[Shark00n]

Thanks yet again jim!

As a matter in fact, I never dared to joke about my problem, I think I'm too self-conscious about it.
I'd like to spend a day not wondering if, everytime I would speak, would I actually speak? Can I make a "perky" comment? Or will it just drag from block to block?

And, about the book, I can't order it from Amazon.com, mainly because of shipping costs and the Customs Office, where I would probably have to pay its price, plus my country's V.A.T. But I did found a copy at Amazon UK, I'm just waiting 'till the end of the month to see how much money I have left, and then I'll order it.

Thanks again for all your help Jim!

[Jim22]

Manuel -

This is my last post to this thread. We're sending a lot of messages back and forth but don't want to clog this forum.

So, we need to move on and let other newcomers have a chance to introduce themselves.

I'm opening a new thread for us in the 'Stuttering Forum,' titled 'Fluency for Manuel 101.'

See you there.

Jim

[Power of three]

Welcome to the forum Manuel on what must be one of the longest opening threads here!

Glad to see you've maded yourself at home, and are already bringing a lot to the forum.

Long may it continue......