Patience with a stutterer.

[happy7117]

I don't understand why listeners are told to be patient with a stutterer when in fact the listener no doubt is uncomfortable having to hear the one stutterer.

If a listener is uneasy hearing a stutterer, why are they patient??? It makes no sense. They are doing something they realy don't want to do.

A patient listener must be one who truly enjoys hearing one stutter. But deep down, I know they do not enjoy hearing us stutter. So why are they patient??

It's like listeners are asked to do something they feel uncomfortable doing. And that is waiting for a stutterer.

When listeners are in a hurry, they do not have time to listen to a stutter. A listener in a hurry should finish a stutterer-not to be rude- because they cannot wait for the person.

A listener cannot have endless patience, drop anything and everything to hear a stutterer go on and on, when in a hurry.

If listeners are very uncomfortable hearing us, why should they be forced to be patient with us when it makes them uncomfortable??

Some listeners hate stuttering, yet they are told to be patient with the person. In other words, they are being told to put up with being uncomfortable hearing the stutterer.

Also--a stutter who cannot say what he wants:

Why should a listener wait for a stutterer when the stutter cannot say what he wishes??

I always want to get my point across as we all do, but when the words do not come out and I know the listener is waiting for me, that just makes me stutter more.

When I know the listener is waiting WHEN I stutterer to finish my words or thoughts, is when I stutterer more.

When I know a listener is not helping me when I stutter is when I stutter more.

I also heard that we should be patient because a stutterer wants to say his own thing.

I fully disagree on that! A stutterer most likely will not be able to say what he wants no matter how hard he tries. And for a listener to assume the stutterer will be able to say what he wants EVENTUALY, with the stutterer knowing he can't say it, is wrong as well.

I just think listeners have wrong assumptions when hearing us.

They assume we can say what we want as long as the listener is patient. That's bull. That is not always the case.

And the listener says "I could not understand you". DUH! I wonder why! The listener could not understand the stutter because the listener chose NOT to help the stutterer when he was having trouble getting his point across.

The listener assumed the stutterer could say what he wanted if they just were patient. That's a wrong assumption also. Stutterers cannot always say what they want no matter how hard they try.

We stutterers are not fluent people. We cannot express our words as easily as fluent ones do. We need help from the listener.

It is extremely nervewracking to hear a stutterer.

I am a stutterer of course, and I don't have alot of patience.

The world moves, and I want to move with it! I don't want to be stopped in time because of my stutter!

In other words, this patient advice could also backfire to be harmfull as well!

[J1S]

I guess it kind of depends on your degree of stuttering but I would rather someone let me finish what I have to say.

I hate it most when someone tries to finish your sentence but its not what you were going to say.

[happy7117]

I hate it most when someone tries to finish your sentence but its not what you were going to say.

I hate it most when people DO NOT finish when I am having trouble because it makes my stuttering worse knowing they are waiting for me while I stutter while tring to say something.

[Jeff99]

i have to finish what i am saying i WON't let people finish my words or sentence for me it's a pride thing i guess.
i personally believe that if you let people finish your words for you etc you are feeding the stutter

[happy7117]

i personally believe that if you let people finish your words for you etc you are feeding the stutter

I don't understand how a stutter can be fed by people trying to help a stutter by finishing his or her words.

They are trying to help a stutterer because the stutterer is having a nasty time. The stutterer just can't spit the word out and is totaly frusterated, and I would think that help from a listener would be most pleasing for the stutterer.

I don't see how helping a stutterer makes the stuttering worse..

I find my stutter gets more severe WHEN a listening person is waiting for me to say what I what as I am stuttering.

I get a feeling of helplessness when I am stuttering, and the fact that a listener is waiting and not helping makes me feel more helpless.

As if the listener is not caring what I am trying to say by not helping me when I am stuttering my brains out!

If they can sort of repeat back some of the message that I was trying to ask them, it would make me feel better knowing they could understand me if they can sort of relay back what I just said.

If they cannot repeat some of what I just said to them, I know they did not understand me.

[JDRow]

I like help, but I also like patience. I do find it's easier if somebody will finish a word for me when I'm having a really bad block, if they're doing it to help. But if they're cutting me off on every other word just because they don't feel like listening, that really doesn't help.

So I do think patience is a good thing, but I don't think that necessarily means letting somebody struggle on a word for two minutes without doing anything. I have found that some people, out of politeness, will never, ever try to finish a word for me, and I do find that frustrating, because it's difficult for me to tell them that I'd like the help and so I sometimes end up just completely unable to say what I'm trying to say and the conversation just stops. I understand they're being polite, but it makes it a little more difficult to talk to them.

On the other hand, there are people who pretty much won't give me the time to finish a single word, and that does make my stutter even worse.

So I'd prefer that somebody be patient, but also be willing to help if I'm obviously having a really hard time.

[happy7117]

I like help, but I also like patience. I do find it's easier if somebody will finish a word for me when I'm having a really bad block, if they're doing it to help..

I agree with that. When I am realy struggling, help is helpfull! But if I am having an easy time, I don't mind them being somewhat patient.

But if they're cutting me off on every other word just because they don't feel like listening, that really doesn't help

If that happened to me, I would simply not talk to them. Those kinds of people are not worth my time.

So I do think patience is a good thing, but I don't think that necessarily means letting somebody struggle on a word for two minutes without doing anything

A listener not helping a stutterer when he or she is having a nasty time is mean and insensative. I agree on that too!

I have found that some people, out of politeness, will never, ever try to finish a word for me, and I do find that frustrating, because it's difficult for me to tell them that I'd like the help and so I sometimes end up just completely unable to say what I'm trying to say and the conversation just stops. I understand they're being polite, but it makes it a little more difficult to talk to them.

Situations where I get completely jammed and stuck happen to me very often. Very nasty, and embarrassing. And in your above reply, listeners do not help me either no matter how much struggle I am having. That pi**es me off the most. When the listener is hearing me struggle to no end while staying silent.

On the other hand, there are people who pretty much won't give me the time to finish a single word, and that does make my stutter even worse

As I already said in the above reply to one of your comments, those kind of people are not worth yours or mine's or any stutterer's time!


So I'd prefer that somebody be patient, but also be willing to help if I'm obviously having a really hard time

If I am having a fairly easy time, I don't mind people being sort of patient. But on the other hand, if I am having a nasty time, the worst thing a listener can do is be patient without helping.

[JDRow]

A listener not helping a stutterer when he or she is having a nasty time is mean and insensative. I agree on that too!

I don't think anybody is trying to be mean or insensitive, though. I think they are trying to be polite and respectful. Because the advice people get is not to finish a stutterer's words. And, most people on the forum don't seem to like it when people finish their words. So people are just doing what they think is polite.

My girlfriend's parents used to never finish words for me. They know a few people with other speech problems, and those people hate to be interrupted or have their sentences finished for them, so they would just wait. They figured that was the polite thing to do. And one time we were having dinner, and I was saying something and had a bad block, and my girlfriend said the word for me, and her father was kind of annoyed with her. He was like, "Uh, Han? What was that? Let him finish." Because they thought it was about as rude as just cutting somebody off mid-sentence, and had taught her not to talk for somebody with a speech problem. So I had to tell them that I like help, which I found to be a horribly embarrassing thing to tell them, but it's made it easier to talk to them since then.

Anyway, my point is just that I really doubt most people who wait are being mean or not being sensitive. They're doing what they think is the sensitive, polite thing to do, and it is the response that most people who stutter seem to want. So while I find it frustrating when somebody just lets me struggle for a really long time, I also get that they have good intentions.

[happy7117]

You have some great points that I feel I need to offer my opinions on!

[QUOTJDRow;16558] Because the advice people get is not to finish a stutterer's words

I think listener's should finish those stutterer's who are having a great difficulty.

If a stutterer cannot be understood at all, I would hope and want a listener to help me.

If a listener waits patiently even when I am struggling alot and does not finish my words, they will never understand me.

By a person filling in my words, it shows me that they are interested and are trying to understand what it is I am trying to say.

If a person does not help me, they will not know what it is, I am trying to say.

When I say something very misunderstandable, a person will usualy not understand me.

That is extremely hurtfull to me to have to struggle tremendously while a listener waits.

And after all that struggling while a listener is supposed to wait, my point will not be made.

That is very hurtfull knowing if only they helped me, they would be showing a genuine interest in what I am trying to say.

If they do not help me during my struggle, how do I know if they are realy listening, or pretending to listen??

[QUOTJDRow;16558]So people are just doing what they think is polite.

It is NOT polite to interupt a person talking, but that is IF they can speak easily and get their point across

If a person can easily speak and get their point across, we would not want to interupt them because they can easily communicate and get their message across.

A stutterer, especialy very unfun or severe like me or anyone else CANNOT get their message across as fluent ones can.

Listeners find it EXTREMELY exhausting and frusterating hearing a stutterer try to get out what he wants.

We stutterers are not fluent people. We cannot easily be listened to as fluent ones can.

Not interupting a bad stutterer gives me the impression that the stutterer will be easy to understand, and the listener will have no problem listening to him.

I also think passing off a stutterer as someone who is easy and pleasent to listen to is wrong also.

We stutterers are not easy to listen too. We want to know we are being understood while speaking.

We stutterers cannot speak fluently, so our message usualy is very misunderstood, and therefore the listener told not to interupt is listening to nothing but gibberish.

The time it takes a stutterer to express whatever he wants usualy takes ages longer than a fluent person.

The fluent person takes very little time of the listener away because he can get his point across quickly.

The stutterer takes a longer time than a listener to get his or her point across.

Listeners are usualy uncomfortable having to wait extra time for a stutter when they can easily understand a fluent person who takes only a few seconds to say what he wants.

The time it takes for a stutterer to say what he wants compared to a fluent person saying something is longer.

Time seems to stop for us stutterers especialy me, and the world moves for listeners when it STOPS for us.

They want to interupt us to keep time moving for them, while time feels stopped for US!

Time feels like it's moving for me when I stutter, and time does not feel stopped as I would like it to be.

When I feel that time around me as stopped, I feel like I can better get my point across because the world around me is stopped allowing me to slow me down.

When I am fluent, the world and time moves with me. When I stutter, time seems to move on without me, and I feel stuck in time while stuttering.

The reason I want people to help me or finish my words is to make me feel like I am moving along with the world, and not stuck in a time of stuttering.

When the world around me feels stopped when I stutter, I feel like time is not moving on without me which relaxes me thus enabling me to get my words out.

When the environment around mefeels stopped as I stutter, the stutter does not seem to freeze time around for me because it's already frozen.

Knowing the world is stopped as I stutter and not moving on without me makes me feel like the world will wait for me.

When the world moves on without me, I feel as if the stuttering is stopping me in time while the world around me moves forward.

I want to move forward with the world as I stutter, so I depend or wish help on others to help me because I want to be released from the feeling that everything is moving around me, and I'm not.

If I knew time could stop and not move forward as I stutter, I would feel better because I would know that the world has time for me to say what I want.

And I would feel like I would not be stuck in time while stuttering because the outside world would already be on hold waiting for me to say what I wanted.

[QUOTJDRow;16558] My girlfriend's parents used to never finish words for me..

Perhaps you had an easier time with what you were trying to say. Perhaps you could still get your message across even while stuttering. Perhaps her parents were able to understand you while stuttering. Perhaps the world around you did not feel like it was moving forward while you stuttered.

Perhaps since you felt like the stuttering was not keeping you frozen in time, that you had all the time in the world to say what you wanted, and therefore you wanted to take as much time as you wanted without feeling rushed by the outside world.


[QUOTJDRow;16558]They know a few people with other speech problems, and those people hate to be interrupted or have their sentences finished for them, so they would just wait.[/QUOTE]

If they waited though, would they have STILL understood the person when they did not help him or her???

Did the person being misunderstood take a long time to express theirself?? Or did the person take a relatively short time to say whatever??

If a person can wait for another with a stutter, it must mean the stutter takes a relatively short time in saying what he or she wants.

That goes with my theory or thoughts about time stopping when I stutter, and the world and environment going on without one.

Maybe the person being misunderstood feels like the world is not moving without them, and that the world and listener feel stopped along with them??


[QUOTJDRow;16558]They figured that was the polite thing to do..[/QUOTE]

Polite for the person stuttering maybe, but what about for them? Did they feel uncomfortable and uneasy having to wait for the stutter??

Did they feel uneasy having to wait for a stutterer when they could be doing other things??

In other words they probably were being polite to be nice, but realy felt like impatient on the inside.

They should admit they are uncomfortable hearing another stutter, and try to move things along by trying to help you.

It makes me very uncomfortable knowing that person is waiting for me to say something which I am realy struggling on.

[QUOTJDRow;16558]And one time we were having dinner, and I was saying something and had a bad block, and my girlfriend said the word for me, and her father was kind of annoyed with her. He was like, "Uh, Han? What was that? Let him finish." .[/QUOTE]

I think the father might have thought you would be able to say the word with no trouble, so you would not need to be interupted to be helped.

But if you had trouble, you might have wanted to be appreciative that she did help you.

The father probably was trying to do the right thing in not liking it when she interupted you, but he probably did not know that sometimes we have trouble where we just need that extra push to succeed!

[QUOTJDRow;16558]Because they thought it was about as rude as just cutting somebody off mid-sentence, and had taught her not to talk for somebody with a speech problem .[/QUOTE]

They probably mean well by saying listeners should not talk for others with a speech problem. But we with stuttering or any other speech problem cannot easily express what we want. We often cannot say words as easily as fluent people can.

We stutterers are not fluent people that can get their point across. Those people that say stutterers should not be interupted probably think we are capable of speech like fluent people and are easy to listen to. But that is not true.

It is very daunting and frusterating hearing a stutterer, and putting a listener through hell having to hear me makes me very uneasy. Me knowing they are waiting for me to say what I know I cannot feels so isolating.

[QUOTJDRow;16558]Anyway, my point is just that I really doubt most people who wait are being mean or not being sensitive..[/QUOTE]

They think what they are doing is right to help us, but for some the right thing can be very hurtfull. I guess all stutters have different ideas on what is polite for them reguarding their stuttering, and what is not polite.

[QUOTJDRow;16558]They're doing what they think is the sensitive, polite thing to do, and it is the response that most people who stutter seem to want...[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's right for those listeners to pretend to listen as I said in another thread. Sure they may nod their head or say, yeah, hh--hmm, or give some kind of response to you.

But they may be responding to be nice. In actuality, they may have not understood the stutterer, and while waiting just sort of nodded their head when in truth they could have not been understanding the person.

The fact they did not help the stutterer, and just play "the wait and be patient game" does no good when the stutter cannot get his message across.

The listener should ask the stutterer questions to clarify what the stutterer just said, or say back some of the message the stutterer was trying to ask the person.

Sure a listener can wait and hear a stutterer out, but can they understand what is being said?? (that is retorical by the way!!-it is an open-ended general question as a thought!)



[QUOTJDRow;16558]So while I find it frustrating when somebody just lets me struggle for a really long time, I also get that they have good intentions.[/QUOTE]

They may have good intentions, but do they also think you will be able to say what you want???

If they assume you can say what you want on your own without help, I guess it is not minded for a stutterer to struggle along.

If they wait for you to struggle on while you may be thinking "I am struggling-I wish they would help me", and they don't help you, then that would not very nice.

I guess stutterers don't mind going through hell trying to say what they want, but some do go through hell like me trying to get my words out!

My bible is now written!

[kilumanati]

jesus, happy that is one long post, has to be a record of some sort, anyway my opinion on this topic I agree with happy, if i am having slight problems then the listener should shut up and be patient, but if i am close to having a facial seizure, then for the love of god, put me and yourself out of our misery and just finish the word.

I dont understand the whole "i dont want people to finish my words for me", its like a cripple saying he doesnt need a wheelchair or a deaf person not learning sign language, most of us need some assistance from time to time, plus if someone is willing to put you out of your misery then why hate him for it

[Jamesthe1st]

I don't know about you but i think people finishing a sentence for me is quite rude. When people laugh at me i get really pissed. I had a bank representative laugh at me on the phone and i nearly called head office and complained.

[Bud]

As a fluent person from a family of stutterers (uncles and cousins), I was taught to be respectful of everyone in a conversation. The PWS in my family enjoyed uninterrupted conversations and told us constantly that they appreciated our not "talking for [them]." It seems to me that if you are a PWS and you want people to finish your sentences or help you with words, you should be the one to tell them so. If you wish for them to let you speak, you should ask them to let you finish if they try to help you out. It's all a matter of learning how to communicate. As far as I am concerned, it makes no difference to me if I am having a conversation with a person with a stutter, a lisp, slurred speech due to a stroke, or anything else; I am listening to what they have to say rather than how they are saying it. I am looking at their eyes and enjoying being in a conversation.

[happy7117]

jesus, happy that is one long post, has to be a record of some sort

It is pretty lengthy, isn't it?? I just did not want to leave anything out!

anyway my opinion on this topic I agree with happy, if i am having slight problems then the listener should shut up and be patient, but if i am close to having a facial seizure, then for the love of god, put me and yourself out of our misery and just finish the word.

I agree. Some problems, I don't mind a listener waiting it out. But for big problems, put me out of my misery, and help me out!


I dont understand the whole "i dont want people to finish my words for me", its like a cripple saying he doesnt need a wheelchair or a deaf person not learning sign language, most of us need some assistance from time to time, plus if someone is willing to put you out of your misery then why hate him for it

Exactly, we should not hate help from other people trying to help us. And if we ask for help trying to get a word or some words out, we should be obliged to get some.

I just thought of another analogy. Imagine a blind person needing a cane to help him or her walk? A person holding a blind person's cane, and not giving it to the blind person when asked for it to help him is cruel.

Or a person in a wheelchair needing the chair to be pushed from behind by someone to get moving, and the person not pusing by the handles to get the chair going.

[happy7117]

I don't know about you but i think people finishing a sentence for me is quite rude

I don't find that rude for me. Perhaps they thought you wanted help, and they were trying to help.

I would have said "thank you for helping me. I was having trouble. Thank you for helping me get my point across".

We should be thankfull for the helpers!

[happy7117]

The PWS in my family enjoyed uninterrupted conversations and told us constantly that they appreciated our not "talking for them"

Perhaps he was able to get his point across with some stuttering, and did not need help from others trying to get his point across.

But for very nasty stutterers like me who are totaly misunderstandable like me, we just can't stutter somewhat and get our point across.

When we can't get our points across at all, it is extremely tiring and painfull for a listener to hear us.

I don't blame a listener one bit for interupting me when I have an extremely hard time. They don't have world's of patience when I stutter forever. And as a stutterer, I have very limited patience when I struggle along.

My mind wants to get the words out, while my mouth does not. That makes me very impatient.

[kilumanati]

i agree with happy, it depends on how bad the stutter is at the moment, sure slight repititions or block ups can be fairly easily plowed (sp?) through, but when it gets nasty it feels like my whole body except my mouth is trying to get the word out - sure the listener might be impatient or something but to think about it from a selfish point of view : i hate stuttering and i would be grateful if someone lend a helping hand every now and then when things get tough

I think ultimately it comes down to personal preferance, some like to "fight" their stutter and want to feel 100% "normal", so someone finishing their words for them isnt considered normal, personally i have accepted the fact that I am not 100% "normal" and instead of "fighting" this thing i have no control over - i will just care less

p.s. to be honest, who's 100% normal these days - i just found out my work collegue likes women clothing, every single one of us is fu***d up to some degree, just accept it

[happy7117]

i agree with happy, it depends on how bad the stutter is at the moment, sure slight repititions or block ups can be fairly easily plowed (sp?) through, but when it gets nasty it feels like my whole body except my mouth is trying to get the word out - sure the listener might be impatient or something but to think about it from a selfish point of view : i hate stuttering and i would be grateful if someone lend a helping hand every now and then when things get tough

Fully agree!

I think ultimately it comes down to personal preferance, some like to "fight" their stutter and want to feel 100% "normal", so someone finishing their words for them isnt considered normal, personally i have accepted the fact that I am not 100% "normal" and instead of "fighting" this thing i have no control over - i will just care less

I hate to have to fight over my stuttering, so I often need that helping hand from someone else to getme through those tough situations where I stutter nastily!

p.s. to be honest, who's 100% normal these days - i just found out my work collegue likes women clothing, every single one of us is fu***d up to some degree, just accept it

A cross-dresser? Yiles!

[Jeff99]

i guess for me it's about pride it's about proving to myself i don't need people to help me that i can do anything i put my mind to thats why i don't let people help me finsih words for me,having said this i rarely stutter now days anyway since my courses but even before when i stuttered alot i wouldn't let people finish for me.

i hate the feeling of walking away thinking i couldn't get that word out or that sound i would much rather go having said i got what i wanted to say out.

i also joke about my blocks if i'm having trouble i would stop start again once i got out what i wanted to say i would say something like well that was a big one.

[happy7117]

i hate the feeling of walking away thinking i couldn't get that word out or that sound i would much rather go having said i got what i wanted to say out..

Indeed, that is an icky feeling. Trying one's darnest to get whatever one wants to say out, and then giving p because it just won't budge!

That's why I ask for help. I want to get my words out no matter what, and if I need others help for that, so be it.

[bathaluman]

I like help, but I also like patience. .......
So I'd prefer that somebody be patient, but also be willing to help if I'm obviously having a really hard time.

Exactamiento my friend...!!!:D

[emily445455]

I'm the opposite than the OP, I will stutter more if people finish my sentences because I feel rushed.

IMO, no matter how "busy" someone is, they have time to wait and listen to what someone has to say.

[nate]

Yow Adam, Great post, literally and figuratively.

I totally agree. When I am having a somewhat hard time I do appreciate when listeners help me out. Of course when i feel like i wanto to express myself then i prefer they have patience.

Its like when Isee people arguing, its an argument. I dont expect them to enjoy what the other person is saying, or to even like it. Or to agree, but I expect them to respect each other and hear each others view points. No matter how out of line they think The other person may be.

Same with stuttering. Patience is more about respect than politeness or sheer bloodymindedness (wanting to see you suffer)
Nate

[Blackbutterfly]

[QUOTE=happy7117;16559]You have some great points that I feel I need to offer my opinions on!



WTF!!!!!. That was too long a post man....

[happy7117]

[QUOTE=happy7117;16559]WTF!!!!!. That was too long a post man....

Didn't want to forget any details.....

Whatever you missed not wanting to read was probably important but, oh well.